When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. Since KERDI is impervious, it does not deprive the mortar of its moisture. Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. Fixing that is not that easy though. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Step 7: Cut the Tile. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. What? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. A place where magic is studied and practiced? (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . x 60 in. New England. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Go with smaller bags or only mix half. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. I appreciate your help and your quick response. However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. Porcelain and ceramic tiles are stiff and hard materials, so if they are installed on an unlevel or bouncy surface they are highly susceptible to cracking. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Step 1: Measure the area. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. Step 4: Place the Tile. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. In my. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. The colour is different. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in To ensure the floor is clean, wipe it with a wet sponge. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. . An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. Will use the Schluter Shower system. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. They are square. All it takes is the right preparation. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. The shower is ready for tile. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? 173 upvotes. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. Some being easier to work with than others. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Find the website that's made specifically for you. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? @JimmyFix-it - You are right. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. Ceramic and porcelain tile, more than almost any other surface material, need a stable . Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. If a pipe or faucet ever leaks in the wall this will ruin your shower. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Yes, you should prime drywall before installing KERDI in order to ensure proper adhesion and a successful installation. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? I trust it and have never had a callback. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. rev2023.3.3.43278. It is also widely available and a relatively inexpensive option approximately $10 for a 3-foot by 5-foot sheet. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. rev2023.3.3.43278. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. You are wise to use a cement board. Welcome to the site. If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? How do I connect these two faces together? 120 sq feet including the floor. Why you use cement board? If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. The surface of Wedi is perfect for bonding. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. Manufactured by Schluter Systems, Kerdi Board is a multifunctional tile underlayment and construction panel, that can also be implemented for forming bonded waterproof assemblies with tile coverings. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. I've never had a failure. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. I also used the Kerdi drain. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. To line niche shelves, for instance. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? It fell right off? #3 This is a DIY site. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. the cost of the tile job. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Anytime Mongo. Yup! Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Hang the cement boar. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. . This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. If you can paint a wall, you can use RedGard. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. How did this project turn out? My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. Thanks to all for the feedback. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. DensShield is one common brand. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. When installing KERDI with . Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Kerdi-Board is an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with reinforcing material on both sides, covered by fleece webbing for effective anchoring of thin-set mortar. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. I would get someone else. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Any recommendations? On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength.